The Michael Jackson Reel
Gregory Williams
Christina Chaffin
Aug.. 25, 2018
Aug.. 25, 2018
Switch (Left-to-right): Gregory Williams, Phillip Ingram, Tommy DeBarge, Eddie Fluellen, Jody Sims and Bobby DeBarge
Switch, The Jacksons and Jermaine ran in the same musical circles in the late 1970's. How did your group get their start and how did you meet Michael in that circle of entertainment?
Well, it all started with Jermaine Jackson, and that led to me meeting Michael. Ironically, I met Jermaine one day before his wife Hazel was due to have their first child, Jermaine Jackson II. I met with Jermaine and gave him our demo tape, and he and his wife Hazel both loved it. The next day, Hazel went to the hospital to have their child and Jermaine called me that same day, asking me, 'How can I help you guys out?' I told him, 'As a group, we want a record deal.' He told me to meet him down at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, where Jermaine II was being born.
It was such a unique time because I had just arrived in Los Angeles, maybe eight 8 or 9 days earlier, and was determined and excited. So, I met him down there and we started talking about what he could help us with based on the demo we gave him. Jermaine and I were sitting in the lobby of the hospital and we talked for a couple hours, waiting for his son to be born. While we were there, who should walk in but Mrs. Jackson, LaToya, Janet, Randy and Michael. They all came in to support Jermaine and Hazel with having their first child. That's the first time I met Michael - right there in Cedars-Sinai, while discussing Switch.
The Jacksons were such a humble family and Michael was a very sweet guy. They all were. They were just that kind of people. Michael specifically was extremely humble, kind, and well-mannered.
As a member of Switch, you were heavy into music at Motown Records and The Jacksons were creating their own sound at Epic Records. Did you and Michael ever get to discuss your love for music?
Oh, many times. After Switch got signed with Motown [under the Gordy label], Michael used to actually come to the recording studio to hangout while we were working with Jermaine. Not a lot, but from time-to-time he would show up and hangout with us. While in the studio, he and I would always talk about music and catch up, and he was brilliant. I mean absolutely brilliant. He was so interested in everything because he was a constant learner and was so passionate about making the best music possible. He knew more about the music industry and more about recording than I do and ever will, and he knew more than anyone even back then.
While in the studio, Michael would hear a song we were recording and he would have a million and one questions to go along with everything. But, his questions were engaging. That's one thing that stands out to me about him. Michael would engage you with his questions to no end, and as well with his insight. His questions were always polite, they were always tactful and he was engaging to the point where you wanted to talk more with him.
Well, it all started with Jermaine Jackson, and that led to me meeting Michael. Ironically, I met Jermaine one day before his wife Hazel was due to have their first child, Jermaine Jackson II. I met with Jermaine and gave him our demo tape, and he and his wife Hazel both loved it. The next day, Hazel went to the hospital to have their child and Jermaine called me that same day, asking me, 'How can I help you guys out?' I told him, 'As a group, we want a record deal.' He told me to meet him down at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, where Jermaine II was being born.
It was such a unique time because I had just arrived in Los Angeles, maybe eight 8 or 9 days earlier, and was determined and excited. So, I met him down there and we started talking about what he could help us with based on the demo we gave him. Jermaine and I were sitting in the lobby of the hospital and we talked for a couple hours, waiting for his son to be born. While we were there, who should walk in but Mrs. Jackson, LaToya, Janet, Randy and Michael. They all came in to support Jermaine and Hazel with having their first child. That's the first time I met Michael - right there in Cedars-Sinai, while discussing Switch.
The Jacksons were such a humble family and Michael was a very sweet guy. They all were. They were just that kind of people. Michael specifically was extremely humble, kind, and well-mannered.
As a member of Switch, you were heavy into music at Motown Records and The Jacksons were creating their own sound at Epic Records. Did you and Michael ever get to discuss your love for music?
Oh, many times. After Switch got signed with Motown [under the Gordy label], Michael used to actually come to the recording studio to hangout while we were working with Jermaine. Not a lot, but from time-to-time he would show up and hangout with us. While in the studio, he and I would always talk about music and catch up, and he was brilliant. I mean absolutely brilliant. He was so interested in everything because he was a constant learner and was so passionate about making the best music possible. He knew more about the music industry and more about recording than I do and ever will, and he knew more than anyone even back then.
While in the studio, Michael would hear a song we were recording and he would have a million and one questions to go along with everything. But, his questions were engaging. That's one thing that stands out to me about him. Michael would engage you with his questions to no end, and as well with his insight. His questions were always polite, they were always tactful and he was engaging to the point where you wanted to talk more with him.
What are some specific memories you have of being in the studio with Michael?
Mike and I would dissect songs together. We would be in the studio and he would say things like, 'I like this bass. I like the way that vocal was done. What do you think of this, Greg? What do you think of that?' We talked a lot about my group's music and about other music as well.
Wow, that's an incredible memory. What memories do you have of him talking about your group's music?
There was a song I wrote, arranged and produced called 'Fallin''. It came out on the album Switch II. That was one of the songs he and I dissected together in the studio. I remember Mike saying, 'I love how well Tommy [DeBarge] plays bass on Fallin'! And these lyrics flow so well!' There are also these background parts to the song that he kept singing over and over in the studio.
'I'm fallin', fallin', helplessly.
I'm fallin', fallin'. Can't you see?
I'm fallin', fallin', desperately.
I'm fallin', fallin' for your love.'
What about outside of the studio? What stands out when reflecting back?
There were different times when the Jackson brothers liked to play basketball and the other guys from Switch liked the game as well. But Michael and I didn't play basketball. Well, I remember back then out in the Valley in California, which is where I live now, when all of us - Switch and The Jacksons joined different celebrity basketball games. You'd have Ray Parker Jr., The Jacksons, a couple of The Commodores and other guys playing. While the games were going on, me and Mike were on the sidelines watching and cracking jokes! *Laughs*... I didn't know how to play and either did he, so we would just watch, and have fun talking and making jokes.
When you think of the different times you and Michael hungout, what's one particular story that comes to mind?
There was this one specific time when we were at the recording of a televised talent show together. There was a yearly, nationally-televised talent show that was sponsored by major record labels called Hal Jackson's Talented Teens International. Hal Jackson was the no. 1 disc jockey is New York City for years and had this annual talent show for African American teenage girls.
He also had different artists and actors that made appearances that performed on the show as well. During this one year in particular, Jermaine performed and my group Switch performed. This was my group's first year on the show and it was Jermaine who got us on there. I also remember that the cast of What's Happening!! and Welcome Back Kotter were there as well.
The show took place in Hollywood and there were a few of us hanging out in the booth backstage. We were hidden behind this curtain, but were able to still see the show. In that back booth was Jermaine, Michael, Bobby DeBarge, myself and a few of the other guys all hanging out together. Michael wasn't one of the performers. He was moreso there just hanging out with us. Well somehow, security lapsed and we got bombarded by all of these girls. It was the most ridiculous thing. I mean they tore down curtains and it was insane. It was just so crazy because when security did show up, they were trying to get to Michael. Jermaine and security were trying to protect Michael, but Michael was trying to protect everybody else! *Laughs*... It's funny. There he was, the smallest one out of all of us in there, and he's trying to protect everybody else!
Lastly, how would you define Michael Jackson's legacy in entertainment?
Genius. Michael was an absolute genius. There are no two ways about it. He was a brilliant guy, and a dedicated, committed guy.
I remember one time I was at the Encino Compound when Michael was working on his album Thriller and they had a studio at their house. One day when I was over, Michael was in the studio working on 'Billie Jean' and I fell in love with it. He said to me, 'Here, you can listen to this. When you get done, just give me my cassette back.' I never got the chance to give it back to him, but that thing had so much stuff on it that Michael had put into 'Billie Jean'. It was incredible. Well by the time Quincy and Michael finalized it, it was like half of what Michael put on there.
My point with this story is that Michael truly was brilliant, and with this particular memory, both Michael and Quincy complimented each other so well. Michael knew how to create. He was one of the most creative people and Quincy knew how to finalize something to make it just right. You get the right combination and boom! They knew the weaknesses and strengths of each other, and knew how to compliment each other with their individual talents.
There was this one specific time when we were at the recording of a televised talent show together. There was a yearly, nationally-televised talent show that was sponsored by major record labels called Hal Jackson's Talented Teens International. Hal Jackson was the no. 1 disc jockey is New York City for years and had this annual talent show for African American teenage girls.
He also had different artists and actors that made appearances that performed on the show as well. During this one year in particular, Jermaine performed and my group Switch performed. This was my group's first year on the show and it was Jermaine who got us on there. I also remember that the cast of What's Happening!! and Welcome Back Kotter were there as well.
The show took place in Hollywood and there were a few of us hanging out in the booth backstage. We were hidden behind this curtain, but were able to still see the show. In that back booth was Jermaine, Michael, Bobby DeBarge, myself and a few of the other guys all hanging out together. Michael wasn't one of the performers. He was moreso there just hanging out with us. Well somehow, security lapsed and we got bombarded by all of these girls. It was the most ridiculous thing. I mean they tore down curtains and it was insane. It was just so crazy because when security did show up, they were trying to get to Michael. Jermaine and security were trying to protect Michael, but Michael was trying to protect everybody else! *Laughs*... It's funny. There he was, the smallest one out of all of us in there, and he's trying to protect everybody else!
Lastly, how would you define Michael Jackson's legacy in entertainment?
Genius. Michael was an absolute genius. There are no two ways about it. He was a brilliant guy, and a dedicated, committed guy.
I remember one time I was at the Encino Compound when Michael was working on his album Thriller and they had a studio at their house. One day when I was over, Michael was in the studio working on 'Billie Jean' and I fell in love with it. He said to me, 'Here, you can listen to this. When you get done, just give me my cassette back.' I never got the chance to give it back to him, but that thing had so much stuff on it that Michael had put into 'Billie Jean'. It was incredible. Well by the time Quincy and Michael finalized it, it was like half of what Michael put on there.
My point with this story is that Michael truly was brilliant, and with this particular memory, both Michael and Quincy complimented each other so well. Michael knew how to create. He was one of the most creative people and Quincy knew how to finalize something to make it just right. You get the right combination and boom! They knew the weaknesses and strengths of each other, and knew how to compliment each other with their individual talents.