The Michael Jackson Reel
Chappy Johnson
Christina Chaffin
January 14, 2017
January 14, 2017
Chappy Johnson
After getting involved with radio, how did you meet the Jackson Five?
I used to go to a radio station called WDAS-AM in Philadelphia and got connected with people who through friends of mine who worked there, and I used to go there every day after school. Finally, I got a little job there doing simple office work like printing off Xerox copies, taking the mail to the post office, and other odds and ends. You know, simple things like that. I did all of that just to be around the disc jockeys who were around the stars because I wanted to get into music in some way, and that was how I could grow. The disc jockeys would introduce me to people and that’s how I met The Five Stairsteps. They were one of the first young family group's of soul like the Jackson Five.
So, I began my relationship with The Five Stairsteps, and we spent about 3 years together. During that third year, we had a show in New York at the Apollo Theater and the Jackson Five were billed on the show as well. See, the way shows worked back then is that you'd be booked for multiple days. The Jackson Five were there for several days to do their shows and The Five Stairsteps were just finishing up. Well, I remember watching the Jackson Five's show for the first time with The Five Stairsteps in the balcony. (In fact, that particular performance was [The Five Stairsteps] last day there and [the Jackson Five] were just beginning their opening night). We watched them and after the show, went backstage to see them. When we met, the Jacksons' were laughing at me because of the different hats and things I used to wear. *Laughs*... Back in those days, the Jackson Five used to wear what you called mod clothes, and those clothes were not so much hippie-like, but just pretty different.
From that point-on, Michael and I hit it off right away. He thought it was just so interesting how I wore these tops and hats, and they would all kid and joke around with me.
I used to go to a radio station called WDAS-AM in Philadelphia and got connected with people who through friends of mine who worked there, and I used to go there every day after school. Finally, I got a little job there doing simple office work like printing off Xerox copies, taking the mail to the post office, and other odds and ends. You know, simple things like that. I did all of that just to be around the disc jockeys who were around the stars because I wanted to get into music in some way, and that was how I could grow. The disc jockeys would introduce me to people and that’s how I met The Five Stairsteps. They were one of the first young family group's of soul like the Jackson Five.
So, I began my relationship with The Five Stairsteps, and we spent about 3 years together. During that third year, we had a show in New York at the Apollo Theater and the Jackson Five were billed on the show as well. See, the way shows worked back then is that you'd be booked for multiple days. The Jackson Five were there for several days to do their shows and The Five Stairsteps were just finishing up. Well, I remember watching the Jackson Five's show for the first time with The Five Stairsteps in the balcony. (In fact, that particular performance was [The Five Stairsteps] last day there and [the Jackson Five] were just beginning their opening night). We watched them and after the show, went backstage to see them. When we met, the Jacksons' were laughing at me because of the different hats and things I used to wear. *Laughs*... Back in those days, the Jackson Five used to wear what you called mod clothes, and those clothes were not so much hippie-like, but just pretty different.
From that point-on, Michael and I hit it off right away. He thought it was just so interesting how I wore these tops and hats, and they would all kid and joke around with me.
Jackson 5 photo shoot, circa 1969. Copyright, unknown.
How did WDAS-AM benefit the Jackson Five's career?
The very same day we met the group and Joe [Jackson], our shows [with The Five Stairsteps] were over, but the Jackson Five's were just beginning. The Stairsteps went back to Chicago, and instead of going back to Philadelphia, I stayed with the Jacksons'. When their shows ended, they didn't have anything else to do but go home, but I was still so excited about them! I called home and got in touch with one of our DJ's, and told him, 'Man, you gotta see this group, the Jackson Five! They're so awesome! You know, they’re just turning out crowds and this kid, Michael - he's incredible! He dances and sings, and does it all!'
The DJ and everyone back home at the station was really into it, and the thing is, the Jackson Five hadn't even had a big record out yet. They did have a record out long before I told the radio station about them, but it was just a regional record that only played in places like Chicago. So back at this time, nobody knew anything about them unless they saw their shows or heard about them through others who saw them.
I remember how money was tight for the Jackson Five, so I worked really hard to convince WDAS about this group, and the radio station believed and trusted what I had to say about talent. They'd say about me, ‘Chappy’s got a good ear and he's really talented.’ After that, they brought the Jackson Five to WDAS. I got in touch with Joe, and the promoter got in touch with Jimmy Bishop and Georgie Woods in Philadelphia, who were the top dogs in radio at the time, and they ran all of the shows. I remember how they said, ‘Okay, we're gonna give 'em a shot and bring 'em in.’ WDAS is how we got the Jackson Five to Philadelphia.
Based on your memory, what was it like being on the road with the Jackson Five and their team prior to Motown?
I remember they did one show every night for 11 days straight for $10,000. That was kind of like an average of $900 a day, but I remember that they had the Jackson Five, the drummer Johnny Jackson, Ronnie Rancifer on the organ, and Joe and his brother Luther. So that wasn't a lot of money when you had to feed all of those mouths, get them all into hotel rooms and do all of that for 11 days in a row. They made a little bit of money that they could keep, but not much. But, it was great and I ended up staying with the group and helping them throughout those 11 days.
The very same day we met the group and Joe [Jackson], our shows [with The Five Stairsteps] were over, but the Jackson Five's were just beginning. The Stairsteps went back to Chicago, and instead of going back to Philadelphia, I stayed with the Jacksons'. When their shows ended, they didn't have anything else to do but go home, but I was still so excited about them! I called home and got in touch with one of our DJ's, and told him, 'Man, you gotta see this group, the Jackson Five! They're so awesome! You know, they’re just turning out crowds and this kid, Michael - he's incredible! He dances and sings, and does it all!'
The DJ and everyone back home at the station was really into it, and the thing is, the Jackson Five hadn't even had a big record out yet. They did have a record out long before I told the radio station about them, but it was just a regional record that only played in places like Chicago. So back at this time, nobody knew anything about them unless they saw their shows or heard about them through others who saw them.
I remember how money was tight for the Jackson Five, so I worked really hard to convince WDAS about this group, and the radio station believed and trusted what I had to say about talent. They'd say about me, ‘Chappy’s got a good ear and he's really talented.’ After that, they brought the Jackson Five to WDAS. I got in touch with Joe, and the promoter got in touch with Jimmy Bishop and Georgie Woods in Philadelphia, who were the top dogs in radio at the time, and they ran all of the shows. I remember how they said, ‘Okay, we're gonna give 'em a shot and bring 'em in.’ WDAS is how we got the Jackson Five to Philadelphia.
Based on your memory, what was it like being on the road with the Jackson Five and their team prior to Motown?
I remember they did one show every night for 11 days straight for $10,000. That was kind of like an average of $900 a day, but I remember that they had the Jackson Five, the drummer Johnny Jackson, Ronnie Rancifer on the organ, and Joe and his brother Luther. So that wasn't a lot of money when you had to feed all of those mouths, get them all into hotel rooms and do all of that for 11 days in a row. They made a little bit of money that they could keep, but not much. But, it was great and I ended up staying with the group and helping them throughout those 11 days.
Owned by J5Collector
What was the day-to-day like off stage and behind the scenes?
Well the way we set up hotel room arrangements to make sure everyone had somewhere to sleep was so funny. There was about 10 people in their entourage, including myself, and we only had four hotel bedrooms. I remember how Ronnie, Johnny and Jackie stayed together in a room, and me, Jermaine and Michael stayed together. Since we didn’t have enough beds for everyone, we would take the mattresses and put them on the floor so everyone could sleep on part of one. That's how we did it. And every day when in New York together, we would all go to the Apollo Theater and traveled in Joe's van. Every day, Joe would get in the back of the van and make bologna & cheese sandwiches for everybody. Sometimes we’d have McDonald's, but with all of that quick food, nobody was really eating that great and I actually got sick at that time. See, all of those guys were thin and I was trying to get thin. I was never heavy but the Jacksons' were a little thinner than me and I wanted to be like them, so I would just eat a little bit of food every day. Because of that, I was getting headaches, and because of the headaches, I was taking a lot of aspirins all the time, and I finally got sick. But, the thing about that time together is that it was just so much fun. We all shared a love for music and just hanging out together.
Anyways, because I got sick, my parents made me come home and get off the road. Leaving them was hard because we were all having fun, but it gave me time to relax and realize what I wanted to do with my life. The Music Industry was definitely my focus.
Michael and them were just so awesome and those 11 days together were incredible. From that point on, we were friends. I will never forget these times because we had so much fun together.
Well the way we set up hotel room arrangements to make sure everyone had somewhere to sleep was so funny. There was about 10 people in their entourage, including myself, and we only had four hotel bedrooms. I remember how Ronnie, Johnny and Jackie stayed together in a room, and me, Jermaine and Michael stayed together. Since we didn’t have enough beds for everyone, we would take the mattresses and put them on the floor so everyone could sleep on part of one. That's how we did it. And every day when in New York together, we would all go to the Apollo Theater and traveled in Joe's van. Every day, Joe would get in the back of the van and make bologna & cheese sandwiches for everybody. Sometimes we’d have McDonald's, but with all of that quick food, nobody was really eating that great and I actually got sick at that time. See, all of those guys were thin and I was trying to get thin. I was never heavy but the Jacksons' were a little thinner than me and I wanted to be like them, so I would just eat a little bit of food every day. Because of that, I was getting headaches, and because of the headaches, I was taking a lot of aspirins all the time, and I finally got sick. But, the thing about that time together is that it was just so much fun. We all shared a love for music and just hanging out together.
Anyways, because I got sick, my parents made me come home and get off the road. Leaving them was hard because we were all having fun, but it gave me time to relax and realize what I wanted to do with my life. The Music Industry was definitely my focus.
Michael and them were just so awesome and those 11 days together were incredible. From that point on, we were friends. I will never forget these times because we had so much fun together.
"Diana Ross Presents the Jackson 5" album shoot, circa 1969
What are some funny stories you have with the Jackson Five during that time at the Apollo Theater?
First off, everything you have ever heard about the Jacksons' being pranksters is the absolute truth. It is the absolute truth! Michael and Marlon were really mischievous, and they never meant any harm, but they'd do little, bad things that were just so funny. Well, Jermaine, Marlon, Michael and I used to go to the bus stop in between shows during the day, and the bus stop would be really crowded. I would take those guys downtown during the day after they got their show allowance and we would all get on the public transportation bus. *Laughs*… Just picture it: the Jackson Five riding the bus and not one person knowing who they were! Well remember, Michael and Marlon were big pranksters.
You know when you see people standing at a public bus stop, how crowded it can get? That’s how it was this one day. It was so crowded near the bus stop with people waiting to get on. After Michael and Marlon got on the bus, they took their arm that was closest to the window and did something so funny. When the bus took off, Michael said, 'Everybody, put your arm out the window and just hold it there!' We put our arm out the window, not knowing what Michael and Marlon were up to and why we were doing this, and when the bus started moving, our hands would smack everybody in the face! *Laughs*... It was awful when I think about it now, but it was so funny! And I didn't know why they were having us put our arm out the window, but they'd start saying to us, 'Everybody, put your arm out the window! Just hold it there. Don't do nothin'!' If you have a lot of people standing close to a bus stop that waiting for it, and everybody on the bus puts their arm out, those people would get smacked! *Laughs*… All those people were screaming as we drove off and we just laughed so hard! We were on the floor laughing! It was just so funny.
You know, little memories like that are so special to me today because we were so in the moment, having fun. Back then, I grew in my career as the Jackson Five did, and we were growing together. It wasn’t like I was starstruck to be around them. These were kids, young teenagers and adults, and we were just living in the moment, chasing our dreams.
These things all happened shortly before they made it big at Motown. The Jackson Five had already signed with Motown, but were still continuing their time on the Chitlin Circuit and nobody knew who they were. You think about that for a moment and it is just so funny to me because they have been known worldwide for so many years, but that was before they were even truly known. Then, 3 or 4 months later, they were the hottest group in the nation with Motown Records. Once ‘I Want You Back’ came out, they were becoming known everywhere, and this memory of us on the public bus happened just a few months before!
First off, everything you have ever heard about the Jacksons' being pranksters is the absolute truth. It is the absolute truth! Michael and Marlon were really mischievous, and they never meant any harm, but they'd do little, bad things that were just so funny. Well, Jermaine, Marlon, Michael and I used to go to the bus stop in between shows during the day, and the bus stop would be really crowded. I would take those guys downtown during the day after they got their show allowance and we would all get on the public transportation bus. *Laughs*… Just picture it: the Jackson Five riding the bus and not one person knowing who they were! Well remember, Michael and Marlon were big pranksters.
You know when you see people standing at a public bus stop, how crowded it can get? That’s how it was this one day. It was so crowded near the bus stop with people waiting to get on. After Michael and Marlon got on the bus, they took their arm that was closest to the window and did something so funny. When the bus took off, Michael said, 'Everybody, put your arm out the window and just hold it there!' We put our arm out the window, not knowing what Michael and Marlon were up to and why we were doing this, and when the bus started moving, our hands would smack everybody in the face! *Laughs*... It was awful when I think about it now, but it was so funny! And I didn't know why they were having us put our arm out the window, but they'd start saying to us, 'Everybody, put your arm out the window! Just hold it there. Don't do nothin'!' If you have a lot of people standing close to a bus stop that waiting for it, and everybody on the bus puts their arm out, those people would get smacked! *Laughs*… All those people were screaming as we drove off and we just laughed so hard! We were on the floor laughing! It was just so funny.
You know, little memories like that are so special to me today because we were so in the moment, having fun. Back then, I grew in my career as the Jackson Five did, and we were growing together. It wasn’t like I was starstruck to be around them. These were kids, young teenagers and adults, and we were just living in the moment, chasing our dreams.
These things all happened shortly before they made it big at Motown. The Jackson Five had already signed with Motown, but were still continuing their time on the Chitlin Circuit and nobody knew who they were. You think about that for a moment and it is just so funny to me because they have been known worldwide for so many years, but that was before they were even truly known. Then, 3 or 4 months later, they were the hottest group in the nation with Motown Records. Once ‘I Want You Back’ came out, they were becoming known everywhere, and this memory of us on the public bus happened just a few months before!
