The Michael Jackson Reel
Bernie Hayes
By Christina Chaffin
June 25, 2016
June 25, 2016
Bernie Hayes
How did you first get started in radio?
I actually started in radio while I was in the service and was a student at the University of Illinois at the same time. I was doing a thing called Usafi. So they had different radio stations at the different air force bases and my first professional job was in 1956 in Alexandria, Louisiana at KBBS radio.
Radio was always a passion for me and I always knew that I wanted to do it. So from 1956 to this day, radio has been my profession.
Who were some of your favorite artists and groups that you admired throughout your early years in radio, that you loved playing?
The artists who were big when I was getting into radio were Louis Jordan, Dinah Washington, Nat King Cole and all of the Doo-wop groups like The Ravens, The Drifters and The Mills Brothers. These are all people who were very popular at the time, back when I first started.
In the 1960's, there was a group called the Jackson Five making its way through the Chitlin' circut. How did you first get introduced to them?
See, I'm from Chicago and the Jackson Five were from Gary, Indiana. I remember how we used to hear all about this little group of kids in Gary who used to travel and do local shows. After continuously hearing about this group, I wanted to see them. So, I went to Gary and saw them perform. They didn't know me at the time and I didn't know them, but from hearing all about them, I went there specifically to watch them perform.
In 1963, I moved to San Francisco to do KSOL Radio, but left there in 1965 and came here to St. Louis. I remember telling people in St. Louis all about this new little kid and the group's record ‘Big Boy.’ After it released, I started playing it on the radio and it became a little hit for them. ‘Big Boy’ became an original hit for the Jackson Five back then.
I actually started in radio while I was in the service and was a student at the University of Illinois at the same time. I was doing a thing called Usafi. So they had different radio stations at the different air force bases and my first professional job was in 1956 in Alexandria, Louisiana at KBBS radio.
Radio was always a passion for me and I always knew that I wanted to do it. So from 1956 to this day, radio has been my profession.
Who were some of your favorite artists and groups that you admired throughout your early years in radio, that you loved playing?
The artists who were big when I was getting into radio were Louis Jordan, Dinah Washington, Nat King Cole and all of the Doo-wop groups like The Ravens, The Drifters and The Mills Brothers. These are all people who were very popular at the time, back when I first started.
In the 1960's, there was a group called the Jackson Five making its way through the Chitlin' circut. How did you first get introduced to them?
See, I'm from Chicago and the Jackson Five were from Gary, Indiana. I remember how we used to hear all about this little group of kids in Gary who used to travel and do local shows. After continuously hearing about this group, I wanted to see them. So, I went to Gary and saw them perform. They didn't know me at the time and I didn't know them, but from hearing all about them, I went there specifically to watch them perform.
In 1963, I moved to San Francisco to do KSOL Radio, but left there in 1965 and came here to St. Louis. I remember telling people in St. Louis all about this new little kid and the group's record ‘Big Boy.’ After it released, I started playing it on the radio and it became a little hit for them. ‘Big Boy’ became an original hit for the Jackson Five back then.
Soul radio station, KWK in St. Louis.
Bernie Hayes and Jim Gates with the Jackson 5.
After discovering who the Jackson Five were, when did you first get to know them?
It was well before the group got to Motown Records. My friend and radio partner Scoop Sanders and I brought the Jackson Five here to East St. Louis to perform at a club called London House East, and they actually ran out of gas when they were on their way. Scoop and I had to go buy them gas. *Laughs*
So we did that particular show when the group came here, and I think we did two or three others with them. There were a couple other acts that would perform as well, but the Jackson Five always stole the show. They just absolutely stole it. We got to know the guys and they were great.
A few years later when the guys made it big with Motown, Joe and I became friends. I look back on those days and they were a lot of fun. The group was very humble at all times. All of those kids were.
What are a couple things that stands out to you about the Jackson Five before they joined Motown Records?
Their song 'Big Boy' is one thing I definitely remember about them and seeing them perform that, along with other cover songs. I remember seeing them perform so many hit covers back then during their time in St. Louis.
In your opinion, what made the group special - from the time they were the Jackson Five, to the time they joined Motown, becoming the Jackson 5?
Michael, himself was the true meaning of ‘prodigy.’ But not only Michael. All of those kids were talented. Michael was out front, but all of them had real talent. Joe rehearsed them to perfection and made them professionals. Picture professionals at just 6 and 7 years old, and a little older, and you have the Jackson Five. They knew the steps. They knew everything. In fact, when Berry [Gordy] got them, they were already pros. They were the real deal.
Their instrumentation was also amazing. They played those instruments as professionals. They knew what they were doing and put in the time to create the quality they produced. They were pros, but I really don’t think back then, the Jackson Five knew how good they really were.
You still met with the Jackson 5 when they were part of Motown. Are there any special moments that stand out from that time?
I remember seeing them in 1971 at the Kiel Auditorium in St. Louis. There was something special that happened that night. A young girl who had been blinded wanted to meet the Jackson 5, and we helped arrange it. So that was very special for her. Wilma Chestnut was her name and she knew that I knew the guys. She really wanted to meet Michael and loved the group.
What about seeing them live? What stands out in your mind?
The main thing I remember other than their performance is how they would have the music playing for a good 10-15 minutes after the show so they could quietly exit without fans knowing. The music would play at the end and fans would think the Jackson 5 were coming back on, but that was so the group could exit the theater. They would keep the music trailing and the audience would think the group is backstage, waiting to come back on, but that was really their exit music.
The Jackson 5 were so big at the time that they needed that type of exit, just so they could get out safely.
At the end of the day, it's always about the music. What’s one song by either Michael or the Jackson 5 that you loved playing on the radio once they were Motown artists?
I loved playing the Jackson 5's version of ‘Who's Lovin' You.’ Oh wow, Michael killed it. Yes he did. That still stands out in my mind. See, we didn't only play singles. We played album cuts and B-sides as well, and ‘Who’s Lovin’ You’ was the B-side song of ‘I Want You Back.’ I loved playing that one. I loved it.
It was well before the group got to Motown Records. My friend and radio partner Scoop Sanders and I brought the Jackson Five here to East St. Louis to perform at a club called London House East, and they actually ran out of gas when they were on their way. Scoop and I had to go buy them gas. *Laughs*
So we did that particular show when the group came here, and I think we did two or three others with them. There were a couple other acts that would perform as well, but the Jackson Five always stole the show. They just absolutely stole it. We got to know the guys and they were great.
A few years later when the guys made it big with Motown, Joe and I became friends. I look back on those days and they were a lot of fun. The group was very humble at all times. All of those kids were.
What are a couple things that stands out to you about the Jackson Five before they joined Motown Records?
Their song 'Big Boy' is one thing I definitely remember about them and seeing them perform that, along with other cover songs. I remember seeing them perform so many hit covers back then during their time in St. Louis.
In your opinion, what made the group special - from the time they were the Jackson Five, to the time they joined Motown, becoming the Jackson 5?
Michael, himself was the true meaning of ‘prodigy.’ But not only Michael. All of those kids were talented. Michael was out front, but all of them had real talent. Joe rehearsed them to perfection and made them professionals. Picture professionals at just 6 and 7 years old, and a little older, and you have the Jackson Five. They knew the steps. They knew everything. In fact, when Berry [Gordy] got them, they were already pros. They were the real deal.
Their instrumentation was also amazing. They played those instruments as professionals. They knew what they were doing and put in the time to create the quality they produced. They were pros, but I really don’t think back then, the Jackson Five knew how good they really were.
You still met with the Jackson 5 when they were part of Motown. Are there any special moments that stand out from that time?
I remember seeing them in 1971 at the Kiel Auditorium in St. Louis. There was something special that happened that night. A young girl who had been blinded wanted to meet the Jackson 5, and we helped arrange it. So that was very special for her. Wilma Chestnut was her name and she knew that I knew the guys. She really wanted to meet Michael and loved the group.
What about seeing them live? What stands out in your mind?
The main thing I remember other than their performance is how they would have the music playing for a good 10-15 minutes after the show so they could quietly exit without fans knowing. The music would play at the end and fans would think the Jackson 5 were coming back on, but that was so the group could exit the theater. They would keep the music trailing and the audience would think the group is backstage, waiting to come back on, but that was really their exit music.
The Jackson 5 were so big at the time that they needed that type of exit, just so they could get out safely.
At the end of the day, it's always about the music. What’s one song by either Michael or the Jackson 5 that you loved playing on the radio once they were Motown artists?
I loved playing the Jackson 5's version of ‘Who's Lovin' You.’ Oh wow, Michael killed it. Yes he did. That still stands out in my mind. See, we didn't only play singles. We played album cuts and B-sides as well, and ‘Who’s Lovin’ You’ was the B-side song of ‘I Want You Back.’ I loved playing that one. I loved it.
All images owned by Bernie Hayes.
